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Top Down Raglan Sweater Question ( K )
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Jan 25, 2014 09:59:17   #
IndigoSpinner
 
I always do ribbing on needles that are about two sizes smaller than the body of a sweater. The ribs need the extra bounce and stretch to hold their shape. Otherwise the neckline with stretch out and gap.

The problems I've had with a ribbed neckline being too small have always been with a bind-off that's too tight, and not stretchy. If you've already frogged, you can't check what was wrong, but try again and try using a nice, stretchy bind off. There are several shown on YouTube.
 
Jan 25, 2014 11:05:01   #
damemary (a regular here)
 
With a top down pattern, the neckline rib starts with cast on. Any suggestions here?

lostarts wrote:
I always do ribbing on needles that are about two sizes smaller than the body of a sweater. The ribs need the extra bounce and stretch to hold their shape. Otherwise the neckline with stretch out and gap.

The problems I've had with a ribbed neckline being too small have always been with a bind-off that's too tight, and not stretchy. If you've already frogged, you can't check what was wrong, but try again and try using a nice, stretchy bind off. There are several shown on YouTube.
Jan 25, 2014 14:30:51   #
IndigoSpinner
 
damemary wrote:
With a top down pattern, the neckline rib starts with cast on. Any suggestions here?


I do either a long tail cast on or a twisted German cast-on (also called a Norwegian cast-on, I think), which is also a long-tail cast-on.

The trick to it is that as you tighten each new, cast-on stitch on the needle, make sure that you leave the tail yarn looser so that there's a space between the new stitch and last one that's about as wide as it would be if there were a stitch there.

This is going to use up a lot more length of yarn in the tail than would otherwise be normal.

A long-tail cast-on is a little stretchier than other kinds, and the twisted German cast-on is stretchier yet. The limiting factor on stretch seems to be the tail yarn, though. You need to leave that extra little bit of length in the tail yarn between each stitch to get real stretch.
Jan 25, 2014 19:46:18   #
damemary (a regular here)
 
Is there anywhere to look so I can see what this looks like? Thanks for the information. I've read a lot and I've never seen any of this.

lostarts wrote:
I do either a long tail cast on or a twisted German cast-on (also called a Norwegian cast-on, I think), which is also a long-tail cast-on.

The trick to it is that as you tighten each new, cast-on stitch on the needle, make sure that you leave the tail yarn looser so that there's a space between the new stitch and last one that's about as wide as it would be if there were a stitch there.

This is going to use up a lot more length of yarn in the tail than would otherwise be normal.

A long-tail cast-on is a little stretchier than other kinds, and the twisted German cast-on is stretchier yet. The limiting factor on stretch seems to be the tail yarn, though. You need to leave that extra little bit of length in the tail yarn between each stitch to get real stretch.
I do either a long tail cast on or a twisted Germa... (show quote)
Jan 25, 2014 20:38:19   #
IndigoSpinner
 
Long tail cast on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC7ZiW6aoH8

Here's the twisted German cast on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk670kVxess

With both, you just don't pull the tail yarn as tight as they do in the video. If you do it right, the new stitch isn't up tight against the last one, there's the space of about a stitch between them.
Jan 25, 2014 23:48:22   #
damemary (a regular here)
 
I'm going to practice. My usual CO is the one you knit onto the needle.

Thanks.

lostarts wrote:
Long tail cast on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC7ZiW6aoH8

Here's the twisted German cast on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk670kVxess

With both, you just don't pull the tail yarn as tight as they do in the video. If you do it right, the new stitch isn't up tight against the last one, there's the space of about a stitch between them.
 
Jan 30, 2014 07:59:47   #
damemary (a regular here)
 
I'm staring and frogging again. I've determined that the pattern calls for more rows in the back of the collar but I can't seem to wrap my head around how it's done. I'm probably missing something simple.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Calculating the stitches around the neck

The next step is to calculate the number of stitches around neck and divide the total stitches into portions for the front and back, and for each sleeve. In these calculations, round any fractional number to the nearest number of whole stitches.

The total number of stitches is the gauge times the neck size:

Total-neck-stitches:__45_____ = gauge:__3_____ × neck-size:__14+_____

Now divide the total up into segments:

Back-stitches:__12_____ = total-neck-stitches:_______ × 0.33 (allowing for stitches moved to front so front is larger)

Sleeve-stitches:_10______ = back-stitches:_______ × 0.25

Increase-stitches: 8 (this is a fixed number)

The front then gets the remainder of the stitches, which is calculated as the total stitches minus the sum of the back, two sleeves, and the 8 increase stitches:

Front-stitches:__15_____ = total-neck-stitches:_45______ -

(back-stitches:__12_____ + sleeve-stitches:__5_____ + sleeve-stitches:__5_____ + 8)

After making these calculations, go back and verify that the front has more stitches than the back. If this isn't so, move some stitches from the back to the front so that this condition is met.

The front of the neck is then divided into three parts. The right and left side of the front each get a quarter of the front stitches, and the center gets the remaining half:

Right-front-stitches:_3______ = front-stitches:_______ x 0.25

Left-front-stitches:__3_____ = front-stitches:_______ x 0.25

Center-front-stitches:____9___ = front-stitches:__15_____ -

(right-front-stitches:__3_____ + left-front-stitches:__3_____)
Casting on

The most complicated part of the raglan is the neck. Once you get past this part, the rest is a breeze!

If you were to simply cast on the total neck stitches in a circle, you would not be able to get the completed sweater over your head! This problem is solved by having the front of the neck dropped. To achieve this, the neck is knit as an incomplete circle, increasing one stitch on each end every other row until half of the front stitches have been added. The remaining front stitches are then cast on to complete the circle.

The four markers of the same color (called B) are used to separate the front, sleeves and back. The two markers of the other color (called A) are used to keep track of the increases of the front stitches.

The following diagram illustrates how the neck is cast on and the positioning of the markers:

back-stitches + 2

B ----------------- B
/ \
sleeve-stitches + 2 / \ sleeve-stitches + 2
/ \
B B
one increase-stitch | RAGLAN NECK | one increase-stitch
A A
-- --
right-front-stitches -- -- left-front-stitches
-- --
-------------------
center-front-stitches

The neck is cast on in this order, using the larger needles:

1 stitch (to build the right side of the neck front)
Marker A
1 stitch (increase stitch)
Marker B
Sleeve-stitches:_______ + 2 increase stitches = _______
Marker B
Back-stitches:_______ + 2 increase stitches = _______
Marker B
Sleeve-stitches:_______ + 2 increase stitches = _______
Marker B
1 stitch (increase stitch)
Marker A
1 stitch (to build the left side of the neck front)

Knitting

Now the fun part at last!

Working back and forth, increase before and after each B marker on every right side row. At the same time, increase at the beginning and end of every right side row until all the right-front and left-front neck stitches are added. The center-front stitches are then cast on all at once, completing the circle.

At this point, you may remove the two A markers and continue knitting, always increasing before and after each marker B on every other row. When the raglan equals the raglan measurement, slip the sleeve stitches on to a holder (or a piece of yarn) and remove the B markers. Add one inch of stitches under the arm. Continue knitting a straight tube (or decrease two stitches under the arms every inch or so for a more tightly-fitted sweater) until the desired body length is reached. On the final row before the ribbing, K9,K2tog. Add ribbing of your choice on smaller needles.

Slip the sleeve stitches on 16" needles. Pick up the added stitches under the arm and knit the sleeve. Decrease one stitch at the beginning and end of the round every inch or so. Work sleeves until sleeve length (less ribbing width) is reached. On the last row, decrease to the number of stitches calculated as follows:

cuff-stitches:_______ = gauge:_______ × wrist-size:_______

Switch to smaller needles and work cuffs.

Pick up every stitch along the neck edge using smaller needles and work neck ribbing.

That's all there is to it! <<<<<<<right>>>>>>>>>
Jan 30, 2014 11:11:27   #
Julianna P
 
I made it work. It is the paragraph that starts "working back and forth..." That makes the extra rows at the back. Is there someone that can help you in person? The other thought is to look at another top down sweater that has more specifics. It might not be the one you knit, but it might help to have something with more specifics. That is what I did as this is my first sweater knit this way.
Jan 30, 2014 15:32:52   #
damemary (a regular here)
 
That's the exact spot that confused me. Thanks.

Julianna P wrote:
I made it work. It is the paragraph that starts "working back and forth..." That makes the extra rows at the back. Is there someone that can help you in person? The other thought is to look at another top down sweater that has more specifics. It might not be the one you knit, but it might help to have something with more specifics. That is what I did as this is my first sweater knit this way.
Jan 31, 2014 10:08:16   #
vjh1530
 
These may help you:

http://www.sweaterscapes.com/shortrok.htm

http://knittinggeek.com/simple/2005/03/magic-of-short-rows.htm

http://www.basixknitting.com/further-anatomy-of-a-top-down-set-in-sleeve-sweater-the-body-and-sleeves/
Jan 31, 2014 10:25:55   #
Poor Purl
 
damemary wrote:
I'm trying to complete first sweater for 13 year old & I'd appreciate any tips more experienced knitters may have. I have one frogged already. (Crewneck too tight. I thought I understood directions. Not.)

I have read one article saying short rows are needed, but no detailed explanation. (I may be thinking too hard....or not. But I do want to finish before college. )
Look at Fringe Association (Knit and Let Knit), which seems to have a top-down tutorial. http://fringeassociation.com/2013/03/08/how-to-improvise-a-top-down-sweater-part-1-casting-on-and-marking-raglans/

It looks like a useful web site.
 
Jan 31, 2014 11:08:44   #
damemary (a regular here)
 
Thanks Purl. Now to try to match my skills.

Poor Purl wrote:
Look at Fringe Association (Knit and Let Knit), which seems to have a top-down tutorial. http://fringeassociation.com/2013/03/08/how-to-improvise-a-top-down-sweater-part-1-casting-on-and-marking-raglans/

It looks like a useful web site.
Feb 1, 2014 05:46:16   #
damemary (a regular here)
 
I'm still confused. I'm still persisting. I'm going to call LYS and see if there is someone to help me in person. I hope I manage to finish a sweater for each grand before they go to college. Thanks everyone.
Feb 1, 2014 07:09:55   #
Gerslay
 
The Incredible, Custom-fit Raglan Sweater

http://www.woolworks.org/patterns/raglan.html

I've made it many times and I really like it. All the real work is done up front; after you do the math to figure the sizing, get it on the needles (not twisted), and with all stitch markers in place, the rest is pure bliss. You can adjust the length, the width, the arms, the ribbing as you go by putting it on and making it a custom fit. You can even make it into a cardigan. There are no seams to sew and only a few tails to weave.

I always do the cast on in a size larger needle. I sometimes do the ribbing (neck, waist, cuff) in a smaller needle than the main body of the sweater. It depends on how it looks...I decide as I go along.

It is a more than just a little confusing at first, but if you can find a knitting group or a LYS near you there will undoubtedly be someone there who can help you "get it on the needles" the first time you try it. You might have to pay at a LYS for an hour's time...then again, you might not. After that, you'll never need any help again.

(I see that you've already decided on the LYS.)

Good luck!
Feb 1, 2014 07:12:25   #
damemary (a regular here)
 
Thanks. I know you're right. I think I have too much information swirling in my mind right now. I just need to get it on the needles.

Gerslay wrote:
The Incredible, Custom-fit Raglan Sweater

http://www.woolworks.org/patterns/raglan.html

I've made it many times and I really like it. All the real work is done up front; after you do the math to figure the sizing, get it on the needles (not twisted), and with all stitch markers in place, the rest is pure bliss. You can adjust the length, the width, the arms, the ribbing as you go by putting it on and making it a custom fit. You can even make it into a cardigan. There are no seams to sew and only a few tails to weave.

I always do the cast on in a size larger needle. I sometimes do the ribbing (neck, waist, cuff) in a smaller needle than the main body of the sweater. It depends on how it looks...I decide as I go along.

It is a more than just a little confusing at first, but if you can find a knitting group or a LYS near you there will undoubtedly be someone there who can help you "get it on the needles" the first time you try it. You might have to pay at a LYS for an hour's time...then again, you might not. After that, you'll never need any help again.

(I see that you've already decided on the LYS)

Good luck!
The Incredible, Custom-fit Raglan Sweater br br ... (show quote)
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