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The best three reasons...Part 2
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Mar 8, 2018 07:44:29   #
ChrisGV (a regular here)
 
I think it is only fair to open this topic without allowing bullying, insults and name calling

aw9358 posted

From the Quora

When the people realize that guns don’t kill people, people kill people?

Yes when know that. That’s precisely why we can’t give them guns.
When people stop killing people they can have all the guns they want.
——————+++
Calling someone silly does not belong in this serious topic.
The man in Las Vegas and the young men at Sandy Hook and Florida owned guns legally. They did not have illegal guns. They were not criminals or murders before they made the decision to gun down innocent people.

I’m not sure who ‘they’are either, but mass shootings needs to stop. There are many opinions either way, but this should be a respectful topic and the posters should not be denegraded or called names for their posts
 
Mar 8, 2018 07:56:16   #
DGreen (a regular here)
 
ChrisGV wrote:
I think it is only fair to open this topic without allowing bullying, insults and name calling

aw9358 posted

From the Quora

When the people realize that guns don’t kill people, people kill people?

Yes when know that. That’s precisely why we can’t give them guns.
When people stop killing people they can have all the guns they want.
——————+++
Calling someone silly does not belong in this serious topic.
The man in Las Vegas and the young men at Sandy Hook and Florida owned guns legally. They did not have illegal guns. They were not criminals or murders before they made the decision to gun down innocent people.

I’m not sure who ‘they’are either, but mass shootings needs to stop. There are many opinions either way, but this should be a respectful topic and the posters should not be denegraded or called names for their posts
I think it is only fair to open this topic without... (show quote)


What we are overlooking is the scale of the gun problem and the fact that gun deaths in the US is a complex problem that will require a complex solution.

News yesterday was that the Florida legislature passed age restrictions on sale of "assault-style" weapons and a ban on bump stocks, along with funding some kind of safety program. I find it depressing that those very weak measures are being hailed as progress. We need to do so much more.
Mar 8, 2018 08:05:30   #
ChrisGV (a regular here)
 
DGreen wrote:
What we are overlooking is the scale of the gun problem and the fact that gun deaths in the US is a complex problem that will require a complex solution.

News yesterday was that the Florida legislature passed age restrictions on sale of "assault-style" weapons and a ban on bump stocks, along with funding some kind of safety program. I find it depressing that those very weak measures are being hailed as progress. We need to do so much more.


Agreed
Mar 8, 2018 08:15:13   #
DGreen (a regular here)
 
ChrisGV wrote:
Agreed


I read this week that several bills have been introduced to this session of Congress, yet none of them has much chance of passage. No matter what individual states do, we will not see true progress until there is action on a national level. The only way we will see that is for sustained and coordinated effort in Washington, and that won't happen as long as the republicans are in control. All one has to do is look at the voting records of republican (and some democrat) legislators to know where their loyalties lie - and it is not on the side of gun control.

All the slogans in the world won't convince them of anything. They need to be replaced with people of integrity on this, and many other issues.
Mar 8, 2018 08:19:58   #
Sherryc (a regular here)
 
I don't think there's a good answer to the gun question because you are always going to have people who "go off the deep end" and do something terrible, whether it's shooting up a school, stabbing multiple victims, setting of a bomb, sending poison in a letter or whatever their deranged mind comes up with.

I see no need to punish millions of law abiding citizens because of a few mentally ill people.

Seems to me like in most cases of gun violence, the shooter was showing symptoms of mental derangement of some sort and many times the police had been advised but did nothing. Maybe they couldn't do anything, maybe nothing can be done for these people.

I have no problem with banning bump stocks or making it difficult to purchase "assault type" rifles.

I don't even have a problem with more background checks before a gun is purchased. However, since criminals don't usually purchase guns legally, all that would do is make it more difficult for the law abiding to get guns and the criminals would still purchase them illegally. The few who have purchased guns "legally" may have lied on their background checks in order to obtain that gun. I don't know that for a fact, but it's possible. Background checks don't take long. I recently purchased a pistol and it took about 10 minutes for them to check me out after I filled out the application.

Many years ago, when they first put background checks into effect, you did have a waiting period..... because the internet wasn't what it is today, you couldn't get on line and do a quick check, you had to send the information off, wait for it to get back. I had to wait over 2 weeks to get my gun at that point.
Mar 8, 2018 08:23:00   #
PatK27 (a regular here)
 
The Members of the NRA believe their right to have guns is a greater right than everyone else's right to not be killed by said guns. Funny, these are the same people who are in the right to life movement and are anti abortion.
Yes, I do know that for a fact because I have many friends and more relatives that believe that
 
Mar 8, 2018 08:25:13   #
Kathie
 
DGreen wrote:
What we are overlooking is the scale of the gun problem and the fact that gun deaths in the US is a complex problem that will require a complex solution.

News yesterday was that the Florida legislature passed age restrictions on sale of "assault-style" weapons and a ban on bump stocks, along with funding some kind of safety program. I find it depressing that those very weak measures are being hailed as progress. We need to do so much more.


That really doesn't accomplish anything it they can just drive to the next state and buy those things. We need national legislation and even with that it will be a long time before we see improvement. There are just too many guns in circulation already to have this turn around any time soon.
Mar 8, 2018 08:35:45   #
DGreen (a regular here)
 
Kathie wrote:
That really doesn't accomplish anything it they can just drive to the next state and buy those things. We need national legislation and even with that it will be a long time before we see improvement. There are just too many guns in circulation already to have this turn around any time soon.


Very true, and I've pointed that out many times. We can turn off the spigot, though.

A robust national database with mandatory waiting periods would help. Prohibiting assault-style weapons would help. Stiff regulations on storage and safety would help, too. If a gun owner was certain that if his weapon was used in a crime or was involved in an accident he would go to jail, you can bet there would be a reduction in theft of guns and accidents resulting from careless handling. Straw purchasers - same thing.

I'm especially pleased that the NRA's support is starting to crack. When they are sent to the dustbin of history it will be a good day for the US.
Mar 8, 2018 08:41:34   #
Knitter from Nebraska (a regular here)
 
DGreen wrote:
I read this week that several bills have been introduced to this session of Congress, yet none of them has much chance of passage. No matter what individual states do, we will not see true progress until there is action on a national level. The only way we will see that is for sustained and coordinated effort in Washington, and that won't happen as long as the republicans are in control. All one has to do is look at the voting records of republican (and some democrat) legislators to know where their loyalties lie - and it is not on the side of gun control.

All the slogans in the world won't convince them of anything. They need to be replaced with people of integrity on this, and many other issues.
I read this week that several bills have been intr... (show quote)


Thankfully, their loyalties lie on the side of the people they represent. Half of the country disagrees with you and deserves to be represented anyway. It seems to me, that the left thinks they should be allowed to force their opinions on the rest of us. That is not liberty and freedom for all. Accept that we disagree with you, and don't want you to dictate to us. We were born to be free and to have self determination. Rule yourself!
Mar 8, 2018 08:45:16   #
DGreen (a regular here)
 
Knitter from Nebraska wrote:
Thankfully, their loyalties lie on the side of the people they represent. Half of the country disagrees with you and deserves to be represented anyway. It seems to me, that the left thinks they should be allowed to force their opinions on the rest of us. That is not liberty and freedom for all. Accept that we disagree with you, and don't want you to dictate to us. We were born to be free and to have self determination. Rule yourself!


www.newsweek.com/american-voters-gun-control-nra-gun-industry-quinnipiac-poll-833340

You are wrong.
Mar 8, 2018 08:49:04   #
Sherryc (a regular here)
 
PatK27 wrote:
The Members of the NRA believe their right to have guns is a greater right than everyone else's right to not be killed by said guns. Funny, these are the same people who are in the right to life movement and are anti abortion.
Yes, I do know that for a fact because I have many friends and more relatives that believe that


I hate to burst your bubble, but not everyone who believes in a right to have guns believes as you say they do. You may know a "few" people who do, but I'd bet they are not in the majority. I have guns and have a right to have them. As far as being anti-abortion, I'm not. I believe a woman has a right to decide what she wants to do with her body and men (or women or the church or government) don't have any business interfering in that.

So don't just put all us "gun lovers" into on neat little box.... it doesn't work.
 
Mar 8, 2018 08:50:53   #
Kathie
 
Knitter from Nebraska wrote:
Thankfully, their loyalties lie on the side of the people they represent. Half of the country disagrees with you and deserves to be represented anyway. It seems to me, that the left thinks they should be allowed to force their opinions on the rest of us. That is not liberty and freedom for all. Accept that we disagree with you, and don't want you to dictate to us. We were born to be free and to have self determination. Rule yourself!


Last I heard the majority of the people wanted some type of legislation controlling gun sales in this country and it's been their opinions that haven't counted. I don't remember the percentage but it was a significant majority. The majority doesn't rule in this country as we saw in the last presidential election and that as well as the NRA having the politicians in their money belt is why there hasn't been any movement to get this problem under control.
Mar 8, 2018 09:04:21   #
DGreen (a regular here)
 
Kathie wrote:
Last I heard the majority of the people wanted some type of legislation controlling gun sales in this country and it's been their opinions that haven't counted. I don't remember the percentage but it was a significant majority. The majority doesn't rule in this country as we saw in the last presidential election and that as well as the NRA having the politicians in their money belt is why there hasn't been any movement to get this problem under control.


The NRA not only puts money in the pockets of politicians, they spend huge amounts of money to tip elections AGAINST candidates who favor gun control. Anyone who thinks their attack ads and pro-gun television spots that emphasize fear and lies don't work is delusional. Ads work. That's why the NRA spends so much on them; if they didn't they wouldn't do it.

Funny how the only people talking about gun confiscation is the NRA and the right wing. This is pure fear-mongering. There have been no credible proposals to confiscate anything, yet the old "slippery slope" argument continues to be heard every time gun control is discussed. The screaming intensifies when the word is "registration." Yet, gun registration is going to have to happen if we are to ever make progress to reduce the carnage.
Mar 8, 2018 09:40:38   #
Cathy B (a regular here)
 
Sherryc wrote:
I don't think there's a good answer to the gun question because you are always going to have people who "go off the deep end" and do something terrible, whether it's shooting up a school, stabbing multiple victims, setting of a bomb, sending poison in a letter or whatever their deranged mind comes up with.

I see no need to punish millions of law abiding citizens because of a few mentally ill people.

Seems to me like in most cases of gun violence, the shooter was showing symptoms of mental derangement of some sort and many times the police had been advised but did nothing. Maybe they couldn't do anything, maybe nothing can be done for these people.

I have no problem with banning bump stocks or making it difficult to purchase "assault type" rifles.

I don't even have a problem with more background checks before a gun is purchased. However, since criminals don't usually purchase guns legally, all that would do is make it more difficult for the law abiding to get guns and the criminals would still purchase them illegally. The few who have purchased guns "legally" may have lied on their background checks in order to obtain that gun. I don't know that for a fact, but it's possible. Background checks don't take long. I recently purchased a pistol and it took about 10 minutes for them to check me out after I filled out the application.

Many years ago, when they first put background checks into effect, you did have a waiting period..... because the internet wasn't what it is today, you couldn't get on line and do a quick check, you had to send the information off, wait for it to get back. I had to wait over 2 weeks to get my gun at that point.
I don't think there's a good answer to the gun que... (show quote)


Yes criminals are obtaining guns illegally, so isn't it true that a majority of these guns once belonged to, and most likely stolen from, people who purchased them legally. So isn't part of the answer to hold those who do not secure their firearms accountable. I know people who store a loaded weapon in the glove compartment of their car, and it used to be the norm for every pickup truck, and they are numerous in our area, to have a fully stocked gun rack mounted behind the seat. Easy pickings for someone needing to steal a gun.
Thanks for confirming that background checks have become very lax. I've read about and watched videos showing how quickly someone can purchase a weapon with little to no background check. The shooting in Florida exemplifies this. The fact that he had been reported to the FBI should have, at the very least, automatically red flagged him on the background check system as not being eligible to purchase a gun.
Mar 8, 2018 10:22:08   #
DGreen (a regular here)
 
Cathy B wrote:
Yes criminals are obtaining guns illegally, so isn't it true that a majority of these guns once belonged to, and most likely stolen from, people who purchased them legally. So isn't part of the answer to hold those who do not secure their firearms accountable. I know people who store a loaded weapon in the glove compartment of their car, and it used to be the norm for every pickup truck, and they are numerous in our area, to have a fully stocked gun rack mounted behind the seat. Easy pickings for someone needing to steal a gun.
Thanks for confirming that background checks have become very lax. I've read about and watched videos showing how quickly someone can purchase a weapon with little to no background check. The shooting in Florida exemplifies this. The fact that he had been reported to the FBI should have, at the very least, automatically red flagged him on the background check system as not being eligible to purchase a gun.
Yes criminals are obtaining guns illegally, so isn... (show quote)


Stepson used to keep a loaded revolver under his pillow. With small boys - 3 and 5 - in the house. Hubby learned this and spoke to his son quite sharply about how irresponsible and dangerous that was. People don't believe it will ever happen to them or their families and in fact, most of the time it does not. That is no reason to be careless with firearms.

You are so right to point out that the original owner of any particular firearm probably purchased it legally. When there is no restriction on private sales or giving guns to family members, it's no wonder so many fall into the wrong hands. When people don't secure firearms and they are stolen, they need to be held to account for the damage done with that weapon. There are plenty of ways to secure a firearm, yet keep it available in case of an emergency or threat.

I'm sick of the excuses. It's time to act. Long past time, actually.
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