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May 19, 2019 12:43:29   #
charbaby (a regular here)
 
DH is watching a program on the History Channel about the combat engineers during the Battle of the Bulge in December, 1944. The program included a bit of a speech by FDR on the cost of the struggle in blood & treasure. He says that "everything we are is at stake." I had the thought that have we lost sight of what we are as Americans & strayed so far from our foundation that we can be as angry & polarized as we are now? That we can believe a skewed version of what we are about & ignore the hard truth? It's hard to be democratic (not the party, but the open door, if you want a better life, you're welcome kind of democracy). You have to be willing & able to put aside fear of "the other" & make room for a new flavor in this American stew. Is this current version of America what all our brave soldiers, sailors, & Marines fought & died for? A very elderly friend, a veteran of that terrible struggle to free Europe & protect the world from fascism & Nazi authoritarianism, is appalled & scandalized by the downward trajectory of the current quality of our Federal government. As am I. To steal from FDR, everything we are, and are supposed to be according to our Constitution is at stake. The give & take of a two party system isn't the problem. The sheer absence of the give & take, the honest willingness to do what's truly American according to our founding documents IS the problem. That's the one bi-partisan issue we have. Communicate with your legislators, regardless of your political stripe. They must represent US, the people. And nothing & no one else comes before that mission.
 
May 19, 2019 12:55:11   #
ammie
 
Very well said. It's so scary now to see what our country is becoming.
May 19, 2019 13:10:58   #
GrandmaSuzy
 
My local congresscritter is a non-apologetic republican who slavishly follows in the footsteps of the cretin in the White House, even though most of his constituents BEG him to vote against certain policies. He did just barely win in the last election, so "maybe" there is hope he'll be overthrown.
May 19, 2019 13:13:28   #
farmlady
 
Right now the USA is headed down a very bad path and I hope and pray that we can get turned around to the values this country has stood for in the past.
May 19, 2019 13:20:04   #
Dusti
 
It's not one party or the other; it's the bad apples in both - the selfish, egotistical, self-centered individuals who have corrupted politics for their own personal gain. THAT is what destroyed America. Unfortunately there is nothing that can be done anymore to turn the tide because the "people" ...us...the working class...are the "ONLY" ones that CAN change it, bring value and ethics back to congress. But I also know too that people are too comfortable, too complacent and show no desire whatsoever to get off their comfortable asses and do something about it. Didn't I say over and over again and again for years and years that we are doomed? Well, that's not gonna change! THAT'S why I say "we're doomed." Do you finally see it NOW??? Look to the super rich!
May 19, 2019 13:20:43   #
Ladyj960 (a regular here)
 
Well said.
 
May 19, 2019 13:37:25   #
Knitter from Nebraska (a regular here)
 
charbaby wrote:
DH is watching a program on the History Channel about the combat engineers during the Battle of the Bulge in December, 1944. The program included a bit of a speech by FDR on the cost of the struggle in blood & treasure. He says that "everything we are is at stake." I had the thought that have we lost sight of what we are as Americans & strayed so far from our foundation that we can be as angry & polarized as we are now? That we can believe a skewed version of what we are about & ignore the hard truth? It's hard to be democratic (not the party, but the open door, if you want a better life, you're welcome kind of democracy). You have to be willing & able to put aside fear of "the other" & make room for a new flavor in this American stew. Is this current version of America what all our brave soldiers, sailors, & Marines fought & died for? A very elderly friend, a veteran of that terrible struggle to free Europe & protect the world from fascism & Nazi authoritarianism, is appalled & scandalized by the downward trajectory of the current quality of our Federal government. As am I. To steal from FDR, everything we are, and are supposed to be according to our Constitution is at stake. The give & take of a two party system isn't the problem. The sheer absence of the give & take, the honest willingness to do what's truly American according to our founding documents IS the problem. That's the one bi-partisan issue we have. Communicate with your legislators, regardless of your political stripe. They must represent US, the people. And nothing & no one else comes before that mission.
DH is watching a program on the History Channel ab... (show quote)


"Make room for a new flavor in this American stew"???? What on earth are you talking about?!? Is there any nationality of people on earth who have not come to the United States? If there are, I've never heard of them! I think that you should read the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States, along with the Bill of Rights. Then read some of the books and papers written by our founding fathers. You don't seem to have an understanding of the principles on which this country was founded.
May 19, 2019 13:40:12   #
Knitter from Nebraska (a regular here)
 
farmlady wrote:
Right now the USA is headed down a very bad path and I hope and pray that we can get turned around to the values this country has stood for in the past.


Do you know what this country stood for? It didn't stand for government! It stood for freedom and independence from government!
May 19, 2019 13:41:48   #
Knitter from Nebraska (a regular here)
 
Dusti wrote:
It's not one party or the other; it's the bad apples in both - the selfish, egotistical, self-centered individuals who have corrupted politics for their own personal gain. THAT is what destroyed America. Unfortunately there is nothing that can be done anymore to turn the tide because the "people" ...us...the working class...are the "ONLY" ones that CAN change it, bring value and ethics back to congress. But I also know too that people are too comfortable, too complacent and show no desire whatsoever to get off their comfortable asses and do something about it. Didn't I say over and over again and again for years and years that we are doomed? Well, that's not gonna change! THAT'S why I say "we're doomed." Do you finally see it NOW??? Look to the super rich!
It's not one party or the other; it's the bad appl... (show quote)


You're right! In the end, the responsibility lies with "We the people "! We cannot sit back and expect someone else to do it for us!
May 19, 2019 13:44:40   #
SQM (a regular here)
 
Knitter from Nebraska wrote:
Do you know what this country stood for? It didn't stand for government! It stood for freedom and independence from government!


Too bad the slaves did not have this basic right given to them by the slave-holding founders.
May 19, 2019 13:59:20   #
Knitter from Nebraska (a regular here)
 
SQM wrote:
Too bad the slaves did not have this basic right given to them by the slave-holding founders.


I agree! But remember...the slaves weren't considered "people" back then. They were considered property, just as one's dog, or horse or cow, was considered property.
 
May 19, 2019 15:22:01   #
charbaby (a regular here)
 
Knitter from Nebraska wrote:
"Make room for a new flavor in this American stew"???? What on earth are you talking about?!? Is there any nationality of people on earth who have not come to the United States? If there are, I've never heard of them! I think that you should read the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States, along with the Bill of Rights. Then read some of the books and papers written by our founding fathers. You don't seem to have an understanding of the principles on which this country was founded.
"Make room for a new flavor in this American ... (show quote)


I beg your generous pardon for my simile that landed flat. We aren't the vaunted melting pot, but a multidimensional melange of, as you so kindly put it, of every nationality on earth. America is that, and has benefited greatly, by the constant flow of immigrants. Few other nations have given immigrants the opportunity to rise above what their station in life was in their home country. I have read those documents & while my understanding of them may be thin by your clear-eyed standards, the current state of the State of the Union would not be understood by the framers. We are a constitutional republic; our representatives both in the House & the Senate run for office asking for our vote. I don't think it's much of a stretch to ask them, demand of them, to represent the People. You know, the People as described in the Gettysburg Address. The first Republican President. His successor is so far from knowing or understanding that which you directed me to learn according to your view, it's laughable to utter his name & Lincoln's in the same breath.
Nationalism, Autocracy, Isolationism are not mentioned by the framers as part of the purpose of this experiment in democracy. Neither is Nazism or Fascism. And we're still working on ridding ourselves of racism & discrimination. We are headed in the wrong direction on many fronts. I pray folks with your erudite understanding of civics, government, the checks & balances of the three branches, and the need for a steady, sane, knowledgeable person at the helm will help direct America back to its charted course. Thanks so much for your comments.
May 19, 2019 15:56:50   #
Beachgirl1000 (a regular here)
 
Knitter from Nebraska wrote:
Do you know what this country stood for? It didn't stand for government! It stood for freedom and independence from government!


Freedom and independence from government? No. We don't have that. Try not paying your taxes. Try not registering your car. Try driving without a license. The governmental authorities provide us with vital services--police and fire protection, for example. Schools and road construction. All put in place and maintained by governments.
I could go on, but you get my drift.
Freedom and independence from government creates anarchy. All successful human societal structures have had some sort of government, some more formal than others, but government just the same.
May 19, 2019 16:15:28   #
loremiko
 
SQM wrote:
Too bad the slaves did not have this basic right given to them by the slave-holding founders.


Many slave owners were born into a culture that landowners also owned slaves and believed it was a practice that should be done away with. Also remember that slave owners didn't only live in America. Those boats transporting tribesman were going to many countries in order to sell their newly acquired property. As evil as it was, it was a booming business around the world. Some founders from southern states didn't want the slaves to have any rights, but others fought for their rights.

Today's human trafficking problem is no different from the slave trade of the 1700's. It's world wide and highly lucrative. It looks different, but it's alive none the less.
May 19, 2019 16:24:24   #
Beachgirl1000 (a regular here)
 
loremiko wrote:
Many slave owners were born into a culture that landowners also owned slaves and believed it was a practice that should be done away with. Also remember that slave owners didn't only live in America. Those boats transporting tribesman were going to many countries in order to sell their newly acquired property. As evil as it was, it was a booming business around the world. Some founders from southern states didn't want the slaves to have any rights, but others fought for their rights.

Today's human trafficking problem is no different from the slave trade of the 1700's. It's world wide and highly lucrative. It looks different, but it's alive none the less.
Many slave owners were born into a culture that la... (show quote)


What would make you think that SQM, or any of the rest of us, is not informed about slavery and human trafficking?
She was making a point about freedom in response to KFN's post.
But this topic is not really about slavery. It's about the direction in which this country seems to be heading right now, under the highly dysfunctional misguided leadership of those who put their own interests ahead of the people's.
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