[Judy-japcrp]

Hi Gang,

Here I come with another crazy issue. I'm knitting a simple pattern rectangular shawl with a seed stitch edge and borders and just knit a row and purl a row between the seed stitch borders. I don't understand why my bottom border folds in like it does. It looks like the side borders are folding in as well Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'd hate to frog this as I'm into the second skein and I'm not a fast knitter, but don't understand why this happens, no only on this project but on others. Thanks in advance and happy knitting...Judy

 

[MMWRay]

There is a a gauge difference between the stockinette and seed stitch. Your bands are pretty narrow too, not enough to prevent the stockinette curling. I would make wider borders or use a different texture pattern.
I have read with garter bands that if you alternate one stitch width in the band it will help prevent this 'flip' but I don't know.
Not sure of any solution when you are already one skein in.

 

[Jazzynitter]

You're a victim of the dreaded stocking stitch curl. It takes a pretty substantial border of garter, rib or seed stitch to counteract it on the ends and the sides. If you don't want to frog, would sewing the sides together to make a tubular scarf be an option?

 

[Clay Lady]

Curling edges on stockinette is because there is more yarn on the purl side of the stitch.
So, as MMWRay says, a wider band would probably help.

Here is the best read on the mysteries of the knitted stitch:
https://techknitting.blogspot.com/2007/03/mysteries-of-knitting-part-1-tale-of.html

 

[Jessica-Jean]

You're a victim of the dreaded stocking stitch curl. It takes a pretty substantial border of garter, rib or seed stitch to counteract it on the ends and the sides. If you don't want to frog, would sewing the sides together to make a tubular scarf be an option?

Substantial? That's what I had to add to my afghan whose bottom edges flipped up and side edges flipped under (or vice versa), despite having wide seed stitch borders as per the pattern!!!

https://www.ravelry.com/projects/JessicaJean/pineapple-knit-afghan

It was in time out for over a decade!

 

[Jessica-Jean]

Curling edges on stockinette is because there is more yarn on the purl side of the stitch.
So, as MMWRay says, a wider band would probably help.

Here is the best read on the mysteries of the knitted stitch:
https://techknitting.blogspot.com/2007/03/mysteries-of-knitting-part-1-tale-of.html

Great link! I keep meaning to read ALL her posts. They're so full of information!

 

[Judy-japcrp]

Clay Lady, thank you for that link, it makes sense to me now why it curls. However, I still don't understand how the heck anyone knits and the edges not curl, when the pattern calls for the type of stitches I'm using. It makes me think that no matter what pattern I knit it will curl. Maybe because of my tension or just the way I knit helps cause it to curl.

Jazzynitter, this is a rectangular prayer shawl so nope can't make it into a tubular scarf. Well I could, but don't want to waste the yarn on a scarf project, but thanks for the idea.

I don't really want to frog everything, but sounds like it's not going to work and will keep curling so better to just frog and try something else. Maybe I just need to go back to crocheting and get away from knitting, at least for a while because right now I'm so aggravated that I can't even knit a simple project like this.

If I used a larger size needle for the border, which I would make a little wider, do you think that would help it not curl/fold? Going to sleep on it tonight and will probably end up frogging it all in the morning and find a crochet pattern to do.

Thanks as always for your help. I won't give up totally but it might be a while before I get back to knitting. Have a super day and happy knitting...Judy

 

[IndigoSpinner]

Stockinet stitch curls. Absolutely, under all circumstances.

The edging isn't curling, it's the stockinet stitch that's curling.

It takes a WIDE border to stand a chance against it!

I try to avoid stockinet stitch at all costs for this reason.

But you can tame the curl, but usually not completely eliminate it using steam blocking.

 

[Dansmarin]

Here is the best read on the mysteries of the knitted stitch:
https://techknitting.blogspot.com/2007/03/mysteries-of-knitting-part-1-tale-of.html

This is the clearest explanation of why knitted fabric curls that I have ever read.

 

[NimueVaniva]

I usually use 7 to 10 rows and 5+ stitches of garter or seed stitch as a border on stockinette when in worsted. Even larger in smaller weights. Last time I did this I think I had 12 rows and 9 stitches of seed. Normally I wouldn't knit straight stockinette in any shawl, scarf, afghan, etc. but needed it in a hurry and couldn't fuss with patterns.

 

[klrober]

Just looking at the 2 different pictures there is definitely a difference in gauge in the stockinette part....(the top one much more loose)....if it were me I would start over with a larger needle & make the edge bigger.

A good blocking will also help when done....

 

[Dansmarin]

Substantial? That's what I had to add to my afghan whose bottom edges flipped up and side edges flipped under (or vice versa), despite having wide seed stitch borders as per the pattern!!!

https://www.ravelry.com/projects/JessicaJean/pineapple-knit-afghan

It was in time out for over a decade!

That's quite a saga. Perhaps your daughter would have accepted it if you'd called it Love Knot, rather than Pineapple. It's a beautiful afghan.

 

[GrumpyGramma]

If you're going to frog and start over you might as well learn now that garter and seed stitch borders have different row gauges from stockinette and start correcting for it in your knitting. It will save you more frustration later.
Short Rows in Garter or Seed St Border

I crocheted first also. I was determined to learn to knit and did. I understand where you're coming from.

 

[MMWRay]

Try something like a basket weave stitch and no borders neccesary and lies flat. How about the Mistake Rib stitch? A version of K2P2 done on an odd number of stitches? It looks way more complicated than it is and it naturally does not curl.

 

[targa416]

Roxanne Richardson made this good Video about that flip. She refers to garter stitch borders, but it should work for seed stitch too.

 

[scumbugusa]

Substantial? That's what I had to add to my afghan whose bottom edges flipped up and side edges flipped under (or vice versa), despite having wide seed stitch borders as per the pattern!!!

https://www.ravelry.com/projects/JessicaJean/pineapple-knit-afghan

It was in time out for over a decade!

What a beautiful afghan.

 

[slmhuffman]

Judy, I have sent you a PM.

 

[ckmc]

Try making the border uneven. Example, if your border is 5 stitches, make one row 5 stitches and 1 row 6 a stitches. I've read that this helps, but haven't tried it as I avoid stockinette stitch unless I'm knitting in the round and even then you have to carful of the top and bottom.

What I did one time was crochet slip stitch on the back at the end of the border. It helped somewhat.

I frogged a shawl that I was at least a 3rd of the way through because nothing stopped the curl.

 

[Judy-japcrp]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions and targa416, thanks for the video will check it out after dinner. I guess my point, aside from the fact I just don't get it, well I get it but don't understand how a designer can make a pattern, people can knit the pattern and not have the same issue. It's just very frustrating. When I decide on a pattern I want to knit I don't want to have to rethink the designers design as I would think it wouldn't curl, but hey what do I know? So thanks everyone for your help and the helpful links, not sure what I'll do but for tonight I definitely won't be working on it, might just start a crocheted shawl.

Thanks again oh and Susan, thanks I got your PM and responded. Happy knitting...Judy

 

[GrumpyGramma]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions and targa416, thanks for the video will check it out after dinner. I guess my point, aside from the fact I just don't get it, well I get it but don't understand how a designer can make a pattern, people can knit the pattern and not have the same issue. It's just very frustrating. When I decide on a pattern I want to knit I don't want to have to rethink the designers design as I would think it wouldn't curl, but hey what do I know? So thanks everyone for your help and the helpful links, not sure what I'll do but for tonight I definitely won't be working on it, might just start a crocheted shawl.

Thanks again oh and Susan, thanks I got your PM and responded. Happy knitting...Judy

Not all "designers" are equal. Some come by the title with less than sterling credentials. This pattern for a seed stitch square is for sale on Ravelry. Is it reasonable to call the seller a designer? https://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/lois-washcloth It was free at the time so I got it to confirm my suspicions. Bottom line is that the more you understand about knitting the better you're able to assess a pattern and be able to fix the things that don't work. I know it's frustrating but that's how it is. My personal pet peeve is patterns that go into so much detail that I can't suss out what I need to know. There's no one size fits all in knitting patterns. What works for me or the knitter in the next county might not work for you or my evil twin. Knitting is constant learning.

eta: writing a pattern doesn't qualify as a designer in my book. I don't design and I don't write patterns. Both require skills I lack.