Nancy I was going to tell you about myself buying a whole big bunch of needles on ebay, they were different lengths of cords, I also bought double end points for socks are hats in different sizes. I would also cut the cords on some of the needles and make a 16 inch for hats. I had to sometimes make the wooden part of the needle shorter so I could use for knitting hats, but kept the longer cords and small needles to use as a magic loop in making socks, I love the bamboo needles as yarn doesn't slip so much on bamboo needles. loopingrope